Okay, so I've been lurking here a while... seems like a cool place. I'm not an expert, but still, abusing animals seems to be the exact opposite of what everyone here is about.

I was referred to a thread in FChan that was talking about the morality of bestiality, and I just finished reading it, and I'm kind of bummed. Not because there were those saying they disapprove. It was the way the arguing was going about there. Those who were speaking up for zoophiles were usually cool enough about everything, but seriously, there were a couple of guys in there that were making me cringe. That Janglur guy is not the kind of person I'd want representing me in any capacity.

I'm used to seeing these arguments of course, but what bugged me is that there were a couple of guys in that thread who were against bestiality who were actually being reasonable. One of them even made me feel a little uncomfortable about myself for a while there. Not because I'm ashamed of myself, but because he was showing that the prejudice isnt just based on paranoia and ignorance. He was listening, he was thinking about what was said to him and responding, even if he did get pissed off a few times at the one guy it was because the guy kept being a jerk instead of trying to discuss things. Not sure about the haters, but I really think there might have been a chance to convert that one guy to being more open minded if things over there had been handled better.

I don't think Im patient enough to put up with the bashing, but I wonder if maybe zoophiles could do with a bit of PR. Someone who can convince people who are willing to listen and talk like that that we aren't a bunch of selfish perverts, but really do care about animals. To show people that we arent just a bunch of fetisists, but that we can see love beyond one shape. With people like Janglur arguing on our behalf, we just seem like a bunch of arrogant brats.

Anyway, one more thing that got my attention there is something that anon guy said. basically, he said that he was trying to figure out if he was wrong or right. He also said that as things are he would attack a zoophile if he ever saw one because he thinks its animal rape. Normally I hate people like that, but he seems like a good guy in so many ways, and the people arguing with him seem so ignorant and petty, Ii just kept thinking 'wouldn't it be great if we could convince him"?

I thought about posting a few times and saying something like 'we aren't like those guys there"! But other then one or two of them, I think most of them would just bash me like they always do, and my skin isnt as thick as it used to be. :(

So there really ARE people who even if they don't approve are willing to listen to another point of view? Interesting. I know what you mean too about some of the people arguing for zoos (Sorta like, 'Oh god - That guy DOES NOT speak for the majority and certainly not ME!!' )

Thanks for the food for thought - my brain was hungry....

Ten years ago when I used to post on the zoo newsgroup, alt.sex.bestiality, there would sometimes come new people to the group and say things like: "Oh my God, you are all sick perverted freaks." and worse things.

A lot of zoos met those people with shouting back insults in return, but a few of us sent emails in private to some of those people who would post anti-zoo comments. Even though a lot of them never replied, there was several of them, who I was able to explain to, and most of those eventually agreed that "Oh, okay. I thought it was always abuse when a human had sex with an animal, but I can see now that there is love involved, and that there is caring for the animals. I thought it was really bad, but I see now, that you are nice people too."

So... I think we have a lot to gain by actually speaking nicely to those who insult us, and not fall for the temptation of insulting them back. We don't gain anything by lowering ourselves to their level. :)

I went along to have a read and found it interesting, thanks for pointing this out. :flowers:

Yeah, its better to keep your head about you, but it ca be hard when there's a lot of anger. I'm used to anger though. Not used to seeing people who are curious about things they don't agree with though. :) It was a nice change, and its nice to hear this isn't a completely issolated incident.

Oh yeah, in case anyone is interested and doesn't know where to go (I know I can't post links :zipped: ) just google FChan. It should be right at the top, and then just go to their discussion page. The thread is nearly 200 posts long at this point, which is a lot for that place. Easy to find. :)

FChan is PREDOMINANTLY a furry site - there is a difference between furry sites and beasty sites -so you should expect some who don't approve of beasy lifestyles - although most are openminded even if they aren't personally interested...

moved to zoo section ;)

Okay, I added a little post in the Fchan discussion. Never seen the place before, I am not a furry, so will probably not stick around.

Hi Verrimgard,

First of all, thank you for posting here in the forum. It's always great to have new lines of thought and topics.

Unforunately, you can't change peoples state of mind when they are very strong willed or close minded. It does nothing but raise your blood pressure and inspres the hate mongers to spew more of their irrational banter.

The few advocates in the particular thread you are discussing, represent a larger majority of people than we might think. They are just vocalizing it.

I think that people that spew hatred, in general, are attempting to insight others to do the same. Look at White Supremacists or people like the "Reverend Phelps" who is the anti gay "cleric" that verbally assaulted Mathiew Shepherd's family during his funeral, after his horrific gay bashing incident where he was beaten, tied to a fence and left to die.

There are far more people in this world that are tolerant and will accept people, no matter what their color, race, religion or ethicity is. I think that those people that get on their high horse, and condemn all types of behavior, tend to be the most suspicious in my mind. I think that they are the people that are hiding a deep dark secret and through their rants, they feel they will be able to hide their own shortcomings.

None of us have to be "in your face vocal" about our personal life styles and that's the way it ought to be. Public Relations is a good thing for business, but not necessarily for intimate or private issues in your life!

Of course, these are my opinions and each individual has the right and the freedom to voice their own views and I respect them for it:)

It is true, as stated obove, that we need people to understand us. How to proceed has been discussed much, and will be in future too.
Next thing is take a step aside, and look at us self. How do we look out there in the normal world.
What they see is the visible side of us, and noting else. The visible side is: 1: porn, 2: caught fencehoppers and 3: lies brought to you by your animal rights organisation, church or whatever.
There is something to start on here. I have seen information sites about zoophilia that claim to inform the others out there about us. And then they bring how-tos. How to's can scare life out oof non-zoo's. Printing manuals on how to use an nanimal as if it would be a kind of equipment! That different sexual information services bring similiar infortion to heteros is something different, we just do not have that right.
1: Those who want to watch porn, do not ecspect everyone to share that interest, and watch your porn alone, or together with those you know does like.
2: Fencehoppers, you think you do not get caught? Look here http://www.beastforum.com/showtopic-81102.html, he did not ecspect to be caught by a camera, eh? Why did that horse owner buy that camera, do you think? The days when video cameras had the size of a jerrycan, costed a fortune, and could only work in bright daylinght are gone. Do not fencehop, each caught fencehopper rise 100.000's against us, with friendly help from the medias.
3: It is hard to inform agains lies, as this demands some sort of coming out, and that is not something lot of us really do not want. But if someone wants to know about our minorty, they should have all the information we can provide them with, without taking a too large risc.
You think I am ot with too many demands? First think of this, if you want the world out there to change attitude to us, and thereby you, just ecspect it will cost you something too.