Nean, ya I definately can see that point of view, and I would definately not hesitate to use lethal force if it came to a break in in my house, but I would see shooting a fence hopper as a little over the top...but that's just me and I don't want to start a big argument over it (even though I love arguin' ^_^)

And okono, I'm actually against fencehopping..

Let's see if I can verbalize this in a way that helps fence-hoppers understand.

I myself have never had to take a human life, actually saved a fair number across the years and miles, guess that's what happens when you are prepared...

Being prepared also means having thought through what you will do in a wide range of possible scenarios. It also means being stone cold sober about what it means to do so and how the law will likely view it.

It is always better to avoid a fight, but it is not always possible. In such a case you need to act to end it decisively with great speed and energy.

A live or wounded adversary can continue to bleed you financially, emotionally, and literally make it impossible for you to carry on while they spin a tale to garner sympathy from folks far removed from whatever actually happened. ...and do it for years...

I don't see what possible benefit it would be to me to allow a trespasser messing sexually with my horses to live provided I am within my lawful right to expunge them. I mean what's my upside to let them go?

There isn't any that I see, it's all downside from my chair.
Dead folks can't sue. Them's the plain facts.

I can be polite and let you waste my time, money, energy and effort, or I can terminate you lawfully and go on about my business after the coroner leaves.

It's not as difficult a decision as you might fantasize...

It's cool and I enjoy the repartee...

Maybe I like arguing too :blush:

Who'd a thunk it. :P

Yeh, I think I'm starting to see the light, but I still there would be some major emotional issues after the fact, these days, the justice department is too blind to deal just justice, like being sued for injuring a burgeler, or the fact u can get less jail time for murder than burning and selling a DVD... -_-

Okono, you have my utmost respect; you've summarized a lot of my feelings about the issue that I never could quite verbalize in the wake of a strong gut reaction I have when this subject comes up.

Also, to the guy who whined about how maybe fence-hopping is the only way that some people can get close to the animals, too bad. One should work for their dreams, not break the law to get what they want like a spoiled child.

I don't believe in lethal force..... -_-

MP

Massive thumbs up to Secret admirer and silkythighs for your great posts.

I will say I have fence hopped alot before but now I don't due to certain changes in my circumstances. Alot of the time I was doing it I was just spending time with the horses and not having any sexual contact whatsoever. For me it was the only way to be close to these wonderful animals.

To DARPAchiefs comment "one should work for there dreams" Is life always that easy? No its not. There are some people who will never be in the situation to own their own horse however hard they work, let alone have it stabled on their own property where they can have risk free access. Also how could they be acting like a spoiled child. Surely the whole point of a spoiled child is they always get what they want. If you don't have what you want then your not really spoiled are you.

Dudemandude I agree with you. It won't be true in very case but there will be times when people who are fencehopping are showing genuine love and affection for the animals.

To those who have given the big "i'm happy to kill anyone near my horses" thing, ok maybe you can do that in the place you live but in alot of countries you can't do that. Not if you don't want to go to prison. I'm from England where the latter applies. What would you do if you weren't in one of those states where its legal to shoot anyone on your land? Well pretty much your only option is calling the police, or scaring the person off I guess
It seems too many posts recently in this thread have become centered around the is it Ok to shoot trespassers debate which is not really what this thread is for (which goes back to what secret admirer said in his post a few pages back).

It is one of the things with being a zoo that for some people it will never be possible for them to fulfill there desires and dreams. I feel very lucky that I have had these chances and hopefully will be in a position in the future to own my own animals which I can love. For a non zoo who just wants human to human sex if they get to 40-50 and they've never had sex they can get a prostitute. They can even go to a country where prostitution is legal if they are worried about being arrested for it, and then they get to have sex.
For a zoo this is not possible. You are either lucky enough to know an owner who can help you out or you are in a position to own your own animals. To me its no surprise that people not in these two catergories will turn to something like fencehopping.

Its very hard for me to be either distinctly for or against fencehopping as I fully understand the views of both sides. But I will admit my sympathy lies more with those genuine animal lovers who have no animal access.

Well said, just what I was thinking. Time to get back on topic & see what others experiences have been.

Life is about your choices, (notwithstanding those countries where you have no choice, and your wife and life are chosen for you). Don't assume for an instant that those of us "lucky" enough to have animals had them beamed down from the Starship Enterprise.

I have a degree in hydraulic engineering. Could work for the Gov't; for the petroleum industry; for the military. That would be a boatload more money than farm calls to set up Ag systems, and trying to breathe life into people's 50 year old machinery with duct tape and baling wire for another year or 2 of use.
I chose the latter, have a small farm (no row crops), and raise and sell enough animals to pay their way.

There are any number of choices you make all your life, to go in the direction you want. Instant gratification? I think not. Long term satisfaction? Absolutely. Are other lifestyles more appealing to you? That's your choice. But having made that choice, that's no excuse to impose yourself on what other people have worked for. How many "mundanes" who never got married use that as an excuse to jump other people? Or who will never have a car or a place to keep one, and go in someone's garage and "borrow" one. That's just as much of a violation of other people.






This post has been edited by neandernitz on May 1 2009, 05:46 PM

Thats not what I meant Neandernitz.
You were in a position to choose to live the life you have. I too am going to be making sure I am in a postion to do the same. Even if I have to make some sacrifices. But the fact is I will hopefully be in a position to make that choice and those sacrifices. If I was 15-20 years older I might well not be.
Some people are not, and never will be in that position. So yes you are "lucky" compared to them. You are lucky you could choose to live the life you have. However many sacrifices you have made, you have chosen to make them.
Plus owning a car is a lot different to owning an animal.

But as has been said by another poster this thread is not for anti fencehoppers to "impose themselves" on other people who have made the choice to do that.

I think its quite clear from your previous posts on this topic what your opinion on this subject is so why not leave it at that. Same for other posters who have repeatedly posted their anti views. You've made yourselves heard why the need to keep repeating yourselves. Your undoubtedly not going to change other peoples opinions on this matter.

Now to finish I have no wish to get further involved in this argument. There is no point as it can not be won or lost, and its obvious to me someone else in the anti camp will always need to add something more and then someone else will etc etc, ad infinitum.

I have said my piece and now i'm shutting up. :zipped:

Agreed. Me too. :zipped:





:D

BTW-- please no more anti-age-ism-ist remarks already-- :pinch:
I "was 15-20 years older" when I decided I needed more animals in my life (and not just sexually) than a place in town and a job reworking poorly designed military equipment could provide. I cashed in my company life insurance, (all $2500 worth :lol: ), bought a stallion, looked for a farm lease with option, and got busy.
*You're never too old........*

I find the argument that I can't have my own animals so I'm going to use someone elses to be completely and utterly specious. The fact that a person can not or will not do what it takes to have animals of their own does not in any circumstances give that person the right to use the animals of those of us who can and do.
LtD

10

Btw nean, you now have a fan club :lol: