...people learn that sex with an animal does not necessarily mean abuse.

Most people get really upset because they identify animal sex with animal abuse. This is really annoying. Of course abuse exist. But sick people rape human beings just like animals.

I'm with you on that one. Closeminded people don't seem to understand that we can love our animals that completely and that we know when they do and don't want to have some fun. They are sexual beings just as we are, why shouldn't we share that to make our bond that much deeper.

I agree with you. People will never accept it unless they can understand it. It’s kind of sad really that more people don’t. By the way where did you find your avatar?

Unfortunately I can't remember. I lost the original pic -_- .

I think it lays in our "civilised" society as they think that we are special an above the other animals. Also they seem to ALWAYS compare sex with animals with sex with human children and until we get away from that it will always remain taboo and not understood.

So what is the differences? Well Animals do reach adulthood and has a sexuality which children don't. They will quite often also show their lust and in that case you can't claim cruelty to animals if THEY initiated.

Like been said, It is true that there are those that abuse animals, but they don't like or appreciate animals in the same way. It cuold also be due to ignorance or lack of knowledge?
As these humans excist, there are many more that do harm to other humans.

Yet many will always see as bonding with animals means closing the gap or breaking the border between being human and being animal, and fur many that's hard to accept.

Svadilfari

I think the biggest obstacle to accepting zoophilia is not the species gap more than it is that people don't know how or if animals can even give full consent.

That is where the animal rights activists say no to the act, they see that animals, like children, cant consent, which is where the whole comparison and the animal abuse issue came up. Also a lot of animals are trained to do things and animal rights activists always question whether or not this training masks consent or somehow influences what an animal chooses to do. (Ie, the animal doesnt know better etc. Like if you keep an animal in the house for 12 years, and then it gets out and into the yard, it doesnt know what to do, etc.)

The line between human and animal is getting blurred more and more due to the protections placed on animals because people are realizing they cant do anything they want to animals. Unfortunately, this consent issue is seen as an abuse issue. So it is persecuted.

Tangent: (Interestingly animals would never give their consent to get neutered if they knew what it was, but this is done because there is pet overpopulation rather than sterilizing, Also people dont want to deal with the behavioral problems associated with being intact, as the animal is more agressive, more needy or more territorial etc. If you get an animal, you should have to deal with it's "inconviences" so you can see the animal rights issue 'Overpopulation' and the animals are lower than humans issue 'convience' Of course it is healthier to have them neutered, but that is simply because, you can't get cancer in places that don't exist anymore, and they are less prone to fight to defend territory and mates.)

Then you have they are lower than we are mentality. This is typically seen more for so called food animals. After all, how many people value a chicken the same as they value thier dog or dogs in general? Humans tend to think categorically and each item is given different value and qualities, well animals cant be in the same spot as humans, they think. (Some extremest animal rights activists value animals the same as they value their own lives, regardless of species, so you have the rat is as good as a child argument used against the philosphy, but even they tend to think zoophilia is an abuse, causeing harm to the animals they are out to protect.)

So basically it is not only a species barrier, but a language barrier, which was the last line of reasoning I had against zoophilia despite my own desires, which snapped when I researched it from the zoo's point of view. Those who decide to put their personal prejudices aside and look at both sides will find that there is clearly consent between lovers, regardless of species.

(of course in my google search it took a long time to find the sites worth visiting for anything other than porn <_< )

Actually, I doubt it has anything to do with commong sense and more to do with rejecting anything that's deviant. I don't believe that the majority of the people has ever given the subject much rational thought, it's just very different from what they're used to so they consider it wrong.

People always have a tendency to reject those who are different: people from a different race, people with a different religion, people with a handicap, people with a different sexuality, people with a different culture, people with a different way of life, people with a different level of intelligence - in short, people that are different.

This is probably due to conformism, and most people conform to the group they belong to. The collective identity they belong to has labelled sex with animals as wrong and the conformists follow mindlessly. This is what wikipedia has to say on conformism and to perhaps better illustrate what I'm trying to say:

Its just really human.
What they dont know about they dont like and make it taboo.
really sad actually , if they would do some effort to invest before judging, it would all be better.
But thats life.

Hey all, just my feelings on this matter. If so many folks think its a consent issue I would love to talk to them about Vegetarianism. When did the animal give consent to be killed and eaten?

Follow that : http://www.firstlight.net/~chythar/manawolf/

You may find what you're looking for. Check for On Zoolophilia, then the old version...

MaFPAzOl © 2005

This post has been edited by MaFPAzOl on May 30 2005, 07:07 AM

welcome wildelf59! if you utilize your search engine you will see that there is already a quite heated topic on veg already... the forum takes a stance that it is inappropriate to flame others because they are not veg or veg... PROCEED WITH CAUTION.

thank you!

Hey :) This was not a flame against Veg or not Veg, simply an observation about the argument on Zoo Vs. consent :)

I didn't say it was ;) it's just a heads up -a lot of people get heated and carried away in controversial topics -which leads to ugliness -and often suspensions and bans -I saw that your a noob and wanted to make you aware -and my comment was also directed at everyone as a reminder not to let passion overtake calm and sensibility... and also to inform you that there is an existing thread....

To tell you the truth, Im sure no one will dis-agree with you. complaining does nothing in this place. If you realy want to try to change opinions on the matter, talk with people out side of beast forum about it.

Might aswell through in my 2 cents. Humans, all humans (including you all, and myself) , are close minded. When humans see something that does not seem right to them they rebel and take offence. Humans will die before everyone is accepted for there unusual opinions.

Edit: sorry for my bad spelling.

This post has been edited by trunks1245 on May 31 2005, 12:53 AM

Bingo!

What I've discovered through being in these forums is that you're absolutely right, and that people into zoo are, sadly, no different.

This isn't meant to be a slam, just simply pointing out that this tendency to fear and stigmatize the different is a human tendency -- none of us is exempt.

I think that we'd all like to believe that we reason first, and base our opinions off of that. However, I've noticed that the contrary is true; first we form an emotional reaction, and then we justify that opinion. We will go out of our way to disregard solid contradictory evidence or good opposing arguments, and instead tar and feather our opponents in an attempt to maintain our worldview at any cost.

If you don't believe me, just look around -- in this forum, or out "in the world," and see for yourself. People *can* overcome this behavior, but not permanently -- in other words, I'm pretty sure this kind of prejudice is built in to our brains and has to be defeated on a case-by-case basis. And in general, people simply never stray out of their comfort zones. It's very, very rare to see someone seriously considering an idea that will challenge a fundamental belief that they adhere to.

I find that it's useful to keep in mind just how irrational we humans are, when debating with same :)