Speaking as one who has been persecuted all his life for being different, I fully understand what it means to be thought of as sick and depraved for my bestial practices. What we need to realize that beastiality is the new "gay". Back in the earlier decades of this century, and all through out history, homosexuality, along with beastiality and other "unnatural" sexual practices have been labled as "taboo", "evil" and in some cases "heretical". Not until the late 60's/early 70's did we explore our sexuality more, hence the "Sexual Revolution". For example, the Kinsey Reports. Talking about them would take up too much time and space, but do a yahoo search on it and you'll find out what I mean. When those reports came out, we went through the usual motions. The bold and daring read it and mostly accepted it. The churches protested. And the public view did not change... until a little later. It was during this time that gay men and women of all shapes and sizes "came out of the clost". They openly lived their lives as homosexuals. There were the the usual acts of hate-crimes against these people. The usual slurs and stereotypes. And worst of all, these same ignorant people corrupting their children to think that "all fags wanna do is get in your pants". Thereby, creating a whole new generation of hate and misunderstanding. But, as the years have passed, being gay is almost accepted as normal these-days. But the remnants of the past still live on in view that beastiality is still wrong. Admittedly, there are some forms of sexual desire that are, in my own opinion, wrong as hell. Pedophilia and necrophilia for example. But I digress. As our openmindedness contiues to grow, one day, maybe soon, maybe much, much later, society will begin to view beastiality in a different light. And I don't want them to see it as something positive or negative, I merely want them to see it for what it is. We've made so many mistakes in the past, and done so much, and yet, so little to rectify them. We need to let our children read our sad and messy history by it's own light. To let them decide for themselves how to feel about it. But to do this, we need to plant the seeds of wisdom in them. Teach them not to judge until they've seen all they need to see. Most importantly, teach them to be open and understanding, regardless of circumstances. But before we can do this, we must first, ourselves, understand, and be open to these things. We need to sit down, and honest and truly ponder this one. IF you don't agree with me, fine. Criticize me all you want. But at least listen to what I've said before you pass you own judgement. Building the future, and keeping the past alive, are one in the same. May we teach our children the right lessons, the ones that count.

1- Sexual tolerance seems to go backward these days, all around the world, not only in US...

2- They better have to see it in a positive light, otherwise it will be forbiden, pure and simple :/ See for "what it is" ? People's view on animal already differs on the ground of 'utility' of animals. Don't expect everybody to agree on the possible love between humans and animals...

Nice output indeed :)

MaFPAzOl © 2005

it will cease to be taboo when organized religion (atleast the modern versions of it) come to an end. that's largely the thing that puts it into illegal/gray area to start with.

sadly, that is all too true. too damn many bible thumpers where i live. people who won't take "i don't belive your religion, now go away unless you want to talk to me rather than at me" as an answer. i belive there is something on a higher level. there pretty much has to be. you can trace things scientificly back to the big bang, but where did all that matter come from to start with? there had to be somekind of intervention at that point, but from there, it would be pretty much that we're the result of completely random chance.

srry if i'm getting a few miles off topic here.

No, you just hit the nail on the head. Law says it's immoral and wrong. And what had always influenced laws the most? Religion. Why? Because God said so, when it probably wasn't God, but some chucklehead who thought it was gross, didn't like it, and had a say in what was written in the bible. Some guy who thought his way was the only way, and therefore, all others should accept it as plain truth, or burn in hell. But now I'm getting off topic! lol Simply put, religion says it's wrong, and since so many in the country are religious, well... it kinda speaks for itself. Thankfully, we are seeing many more people, one of which I saw elsewhere, who was a devout Christian, and practises beastiality. Slowly, but surely, it's becoming more accepted. Let us hope it continues this way, fopr all our sakes.

There are a lot of taboos, however, and each persecuted group tends to think that it's the only game in town. So often you'll find blacks frame everything in racism, homosexuals think everyone's homophobic, and zoophiles think that beastiality is "the last great taboo."

There are dozens of "last great taboos," and depending upon who you ask, beastiality ranges from not a big deal, just slightly gross (as some I've spoken with have felt), all the way to The Worst Sin Imaginable.

I'm a member of a couple of categories that are highly shunned (zoophiles, atheists), and a couple of categories that are supposed to be the Great Oppressors: white, male, fairly materially well off. So I can't figure out if I'm the victim or the oppressor.

Or maybe those old labels just don't make sense anymore and we need to start looking at people on a case-by-case basis instead of taking the lazy way out and mentally pigeonholing people into stereotypes that we won't let them escape from.

[EDIT: why is g-r-o-u-p SPAM??]

This post has been edited by atomx on Jun 16 2005, 08:08 AM

I remember when not so long ago I found site with article about bestiality in Sweden, where it is legal. They described it as a problem, since there are (according to arcticle) many cases of animal abusing in that country and authorities can do nothing with them. As you can guess, in their eyes every case of bestiality = animal abusing. They reported that most often abused animals are horses. So they know the equines are one of the most prefered by us, but how can they equalize sexual affection to horse with abusing it? They haven't even heard about happy zoo couples like Tschoni and Jasou or Sleipnir and Elska, or (sniff) Hetman and Kora. But what makes me see red most, is that it's SO easy to understand bestiality doesn't harm animal - there are only few things to understand:

1. Animal is not a child - animals like we also make sex and enjoy it - so zoophilia cannot be confused with pedophilia, where sexual interest is directed at sexually immature units.
2. Animal cannot talk, but that doesn't mean it cannot consent - in nature, male always knows when female allows (raised tail means nothing but "go on"), the trick is to know when female allows.
3. If animal didn't want to have a sex, it'd be easy to notice it - animal wouldn't just let us penetrate it, it'd try to walk away, or would show fear etc. - so the theory that "we can never be sure if animal wants it" is just load of crap to me.
4. If animal didn't want to have a sex with us and we still kept trying, it could show us its refuse with fangs or claws or hooves - animal are less defenceless than many women.
5. To have a sex with animal you have to become an animal too, there is no domination over it. If you want to mount a mare, you have to show her first that you are just specific kind of stallion, you've got two legs but you can give her pleasure like stallion does. To good beast sex ALWAYS is required full equality between man and animal.
6. We cannot judge animal mating by our human sexual standards, like saying animal "is not aware" etc. - for animal sex is just a sex, it wants it so it has it, and then as long as sex with human seems ok for animal (see above), it doesn't matter it's not aware of sexual values created by humans.
7. And what's the most important: you DON'T HAVE to force animal! People think animal would never want to have a sex with human as that's not its species, and thus if man wants sex with animal, must use rape. But the truth every of us knows is that when you are animal even other species is acceptable as a sex partner if it behaves like your species. It doesn't matter for bitch whether she's mounted by dog or fingered by master - the important is to satisfy her WELL.

I think this is it. Only seven points to understand and things are clear, even for child. But unfortunately even the best argument means nothing when people are highly convinced that they know better.

Horse with name, I wholeheartedly agree with your arguments.
There was a case I followed where a man was caught copulating with a mare. He was sentenced because of animal abuse or animal torture.
Seriously, it's a strange kind of torture. I'm sure if that mare didn't like it, she would have kicked or something.
If I consider how bad some people treat animals. Pig masting facilities or egg facilities. That's more like abuse and torture, but it's legal. Or at least the authorities don't do anything against it.

This post has been edited by Irolan on Jun 17 2005, 05:24 AM

it's very interesting, as a gay man, to read this thread. I think you answer your own questions just by the nature of your question itself. There is still a huge stigma associated with being gay, thus your using it to compare to another stimatized lifestyle... and hiv was immediately associated back to gays too -
if it is sooo popular to be gay -why is it that whenever a contraversial human rights question arises it immediately reverts back to gays???

once out of the woods, it seems the world forgets the struggle - stonewall became infamous (btw -it was NYC not SanFran) because it was a slaughter -we were beaten stoned and even killed -these men (and women) were the epitomy of courage -they took a stance and fought to the death -them against the world -but don't ever forget my friends -you don't get a medal for saving your own ass -you just get to see another day... the struggle was survival -not acceptance.

and that applies to hiv too. We watched our best friends die -and we watched our new best friends die too -and then again! and again! and again and again!@#! I'm not so sure you can realize the struggle we have endured -in fact I am certain that you can not -you have zero idea what we have endured -it's sometimes still even inconcievable to ourselves -and then there was the salt in the open wounds -before we could finish grieving we became the scapegoats -I can assure you that it was not fashionable to be gay in the 80's -or even know a gay man -it was like leoparsy -it's so easy to kick a man when he is down... and once again we endured -the gay man is now the lowest hiv contracting minority in the world -but I am here to remind you of the cost...

-as of yet there are few witch hunts for zoos as it remains predominately behind closed doors -and so I ask you -are you sure you want to open those doors? are your willing to sustain the casulaties of war?


edit* the above was a quote from myself -it didn't come out looking like that because i copied and pasted -it's from the thread I added a link to below... *end edit


this all sounds too familiar -you can see the entire thread here ;)

This post has been edited by southflorida on Jun 17 2005, 07:31 AM

When I first learnt about Beastiality I thought it was wrong, as I was brought up in a society where anything such as Beastiality, Necrophilia and Paedophilia are deemed morally wrong and therefore illegal. However I came to realise that Beastiality is big part of some peoples lives. And as has been said earlierit's in our nature. We are just as much an animal as a dog or a horse or any other species. The oly difference is that we are more developed. We have a higher IQ level, higher level of commincation etc. But as a person, we are just an animal with an ability to speak rather than just bark or baa. We all have an animalistic side.

Cavemen, for example, are exactly how we would be now if we had no technology, no developed commincation. Nothing has really changed apart from the times. One thing that certainly does make as as much as an animal as say one you'd find on a farm or in the wild is the natural instinct to have sex. Through this I realised that Beastiality isn't really wrong. Yes it's very different and slightly more primative but at the end of the day sex is natural whether it's between humans or animals. This also makes it really daft when authorities try to say it's abuse. If it was abuse then the animal would be clearly in distress or would suffer evident physical harm.

Out of the three "taboo" topics I named earlier I feel that Paedophilia and Necrophilia are still morally wrong because it's is obvious. Sex with an underage person is abusive and physically wrong due to the bodies develope etc. And Necrophilia is wrong because, again, it is a very disgusting thing to do and can be very dangerous to health too.

But however, Beastiality should be legallised more around the world as there really is nothing hugelly "wrong" about it. If Holland and Brazil (as far as I'm aware) can have it legal then why can't other countries accept that maybe it's not really that unacceptable? It's nature at it's simplist form.

wow that was very well written and insightful

Thanx. There's also another example of people's hyporcisy about "abuse" of animals which annoys me. People keep animals in their houses, thus forcing them to live in unwanted celibacy without natural contacts with opposite sex, which must be terrible to animal, but this is not torture. Yet when zoo copulates with his bitch, providing her regular contacts with male, this is torturing. Dogs hump their master's legs just because they have no bitches and can't stand it, but owner doesn't car about that, just yells at poor dog. But that's alright. <_< And I agree about that mare - is that so hard for some people to understand how strong is typical mare and that if man doesn't get killed it means that mare allows after all?
PS. Cute avatar ;)

I think tolerance toward zoophilia/bestiality will get worse before it gets better. The more non-zoos hear about it, the more they will be motivated to act against it. Look at what happened to that guy in Missouri who went on the Jerry Springer show with his pony, Pixel. I heard that Missouri outlawed bestiality because of him.

I'm not against zoophilia being accepted. I just think this is what will happen.

You're right, Shadowfax, but I'm sure that this part of coming out when masses get more hating us is unavoidable and we must pass through it. It's like getting rid of decaying tooth or escaping from burning house through wall of fire around exit - if we want to free ourselves from some tormenting pain, it must get bigger a bit before it starts disappearing. If we start showing ourselves to wider society we will get hated by many people, but if we don't, we can live hidden for many years. You know, gays in Poland are still not accepted by many people (sad thing to say) and they have to show them they exist, but when they make a public parade, they get hit with rocks or eggs (THIS IS TRUE!!!) but they don't give up, and there are already good results - homosexuality becomes more known topic in Poland and people are starting to debate about it. It has made some people more understanding homosexual minority, and it wouldn't have happened if they hadn't tried to fight for their right. If we want to become accepted, first we must endure some hostility from people but it's necessary to make them understanding us one day.

Yes, although I cannot speak for everyone, we do need to stand up and tell the world what we do, but more importantly, we need to tell them who we are. Yes, it'll be very bad in the beginning, there will be protests, paranoia, pet neutering will probably become much more commonplace (if not to keep population down but to prevent people from havng sex with animals), and make no mistake, there will be lynchings and vigilante "justice", mark my words. But we cannot keep "living in the kennel" forever. Eventually, we will have to come out. Now, is probably not the best time to do so, but we need to prepare ourselves for the hardships we would endure. We're already outcasts. The world just doesn't know it yet. When they do realize it, we will be persecuted by everyone, and as usual, the goons up on the hill will make all kinds of anti-beastiality laws to appease the masses, even though, and I guarantee, there is at least one zoophile who holds a prominent political office. We would recieve dirty looks from the people that know, and our families would more'n likely shun us. But we'll all have to deal with this at some point. Look at what all these others have gone through. Blacks had to fight for 200+ years to achieve basic human rights, let alone social acceptance. The point is, we all need to realize that we'll eventually, as a group, come out into the light. It may be next week, or it may not happen in our lifetime. So to answer your question, others may not be prepared, but I sure as hell am. I full well know the risks I'm taking, and I am fully prepared to deal with the consequences of my actions. Now, I'm not trying to provoke some large-scale crap like a a protest or even (godforbid) some kind of march on Washington... This is not a call to arms. This is a call to wake-up and smell the kibble.