ILPK,

You made good sense of how you feel, and about how equal we should be with our pets or lovers of another species. It's just that others don't look at it that way, they just use them, animals, and thats what makes the differences between us, is what HR is pointing out. We may all be the same in one way, but different in others.

Wolfie: The sad thing is that threads and talks like this still have to show up!! Its realy sad to see that even people who love and live with animals who are all in all almost only emotional beings are still able to treat them so... in such a way.
I agree with you that in some cases the owners should be treated the same way they treat their animals...

Oh and i realy love the idea of yours - zoofeels ;)


ILPK: Well i think i talked about my past a bit allready and it is still a big part of my present
Im not the one to judge! I dont like doing it and i allways try to avoid thinking in any way that could lead me to judging other people without knowing them!
I got judged by other people all of my live. I got beaten up, kicked around and all in all treaded like dirt! Just because people looked at me and judged me by what i looked like or the way i behaved, but never by what i was behind my surface! Thats the reason why i allways try to be polite, kind and friendly.
After i created the thread "Would you share your animal" over at the Zoophiliaforum i got a mail from someone who is from this forum - though he created a completly new account for that mail! He insulted me and called me alot of things along with "better zoo who thinks only his believes are right and being unable to accept other opinions" well atleast it was very close to this!
Being used to getting insulted and such i still felt very much attacked and sad that someone didnt hat the balls to post this answere on the forum but still felt tough enough to write it to me!
Still i didnt reported that guy! I could have done that an im pretty sure the admins and mods here have ways to find out who that guy was, but i didnt! I think people like that will have to learn that some people are different and wont behave their way just because they act or behave tough or strong...
Some people will have and keep their own opinons no matter what the mass of people says or thinks!

Anyways, dogs were the first living creatures on this planted that havnt treaded me like shit or dirt like almost every human did! They've accepeted me the way i was and still am! Therefor i have and allways will have a very close bond to them, because of that i allways feel so damn sad and disapointed if someone treads dogs like "furniture" or just "things", which can be replaced when they're broken or worn out...
Besides of that i have lost my first real love way to earlie because of the idiocy of a drunken guy and every time i read from someone treating his dogs bad or in the way like bighorse does i think: Why the hell did Shina had to die and that (insert insult here) is allowed to have dogs and treat them like that!!!
I allways try to ignore that while surfing this or any other board but sometimes i just cant take it anymore!!!
Because of the behavior of a few people we other zoophiles who love their animals are treated like scum, shit and rapeists. If the society would only see the love we have for our mates they (or atelast some people) might would accept us and our lifestyle way earlier! But 99% of all people only see and believe about the few people who treat their animals like things like objects to use...
There are so many things that make me sad and angry

I can and i do accept other people opions and ways to live, thats why im still a member of this place and why im still alive. If not i would have allready been banned or i would be lieng six feet deep in dirt... But sometimes i just cant stand it anymore and then i have to say what i think if it k!lls me or not!! This was one of those cases and i have to say if someone cant deal with it im sorry but i wont change my opinion - never!! I think i dont need to justify my opion or what i have said but still i do so everone knows why i say the things i say...

bighorse: No matter what i have said i thank you for being honest and dont pretending to be different the way you are!
I might be young - im only 24 - but that doesnt means i still have to be unexpiereanced or naive. I dont care for the age of someone like i said a couple of times - let him/her be 10 or 100, it doesnt matters to me, i treat every one the same way...
In my life i have lost alot of people i loved very much! Infact only my parrents and my brother are tthe only ones left of my family which i dont hate! Those i loved in my family died allready, also most of the people i liked in my life have either left or died. I have lost so many animals for which i cared and which i loved (even though only my Shina was also my lover and mate) its useless to cout them! I know many people here have lost beloved ones, many of them probably in way worser ways then i did. And when i read how you talk and think about your animals which offer you their heart and their body and all you do is "use" them i cant help but all i feel is hate, disgust and i feel sorry for you.
Hate: because that behavior is just the way so many humans act and behave! Take what ever you can and never care about those you hurt with that!
Disgust: because you are just another one of "those" people who dont realy care about the importand things besides sex and because i dont... well i better not write what i have on mind...
Sorry: because you miss so much, so much more which sex cant give you! All you have is the act and nothing more...

Yes you are right, there is no way words can change you. And im not the one to try it - im not the one to critize you either... I think noone should but still i feel the way i do about you, all i can say is i hope that some day you might change. I hope that you will expiereance and feel and the love for your dog that i and so many others here feel. I hope it for you and all the dogs and animals from you...


Oh and sorry if i might sound a bit harsh - i havent slept for almost 30 hours and almost had a carcrash this morning. So please bear with me....

HR,

I do agree with you on the fact..that animals are the only creatures who have never made me feel awful about myself, never treated me like sh*t and no matter what, even if everyone in the world hated me that day..my dog stil loves me as i am :) thats why i feel so strongly about them, and always try to stick up for what i believe in. I didnt mean to sound like i was accusing you of being judgemental and ignorant to other peoples beliefs or opinions, lifestyle, anything.
Its just, i have had some very remarkable people change how i thought, and how i felt in life..being accepted for who i am when i thought NO ONE would..to me that is a gift i can never repay no matter how long i live, i can only learn from it, and try to see life through others eyes, and show them the same compassion others have shown me, in my life. that is why i always try to see the best in people yet even when others are always fighting against me, you know?

ILPK

Very well put HR. And thanks for your kind comments and appreicative to my new word :lol: :D

To me, in a nutshell, there are three totaly different feilds in this matter. There is love, lust, and [CENSOR]. [CENSOR] in all aspects is wrong and can be applied to all persuations. In my own opinion I think that someone can be straight and homosexual, gay and heterosexual, etc. Thats an exmaple of love and lust. You can have emotions towards somethings and have urges towards others. I beleive the same applies to Zoophilia and Beastiality, one is love one is lust. You can easily have one or the other, but to me they are tied together.

Will [forced, non-consentual sex] do instead?

ILPK,

That is the main reason alot of us love our dogs ao much, the way they are always there for us, no matter what happens. People starve their dogs and pets, and still they are there. It is a damn shame that stupid humans do that stuff, even so they do it to their own kids and others that they are caring for. There is the number one clue there, that if someone can't take care of someone elses kid, animal then they can't take care of their own nor themselves, and should be put alway so no others will be abused or harmed by them. :angry: <_< There are alot of cases out there where people have killed others kids and pets, because they the simple fact they get pissed off, and who pays for it, the ones that can't defend for themselves. :( :( Dogs being dragged behind cars, being shot, hanged, blowed up by firecrackers, poisoned, cut up, stabbed, kicked, and you name it. Azzhole people have done it to their dogs and others' dogs. The fact of getting pissed off, and then rage sets in. :angry:

So back to the dogs ther ILPK, dogs are truly the bestest friend and lover one can have, they will never cheat on you, lie to you, divorce you, and etc... They truly show far more love then any human can ever show or give us. Sometime in your life your parents get pissed at you, brother or sister may have done the same, every human have had a pissed off time now and then or alot of times. But, you never really ever see a dog do anything like that, unless it had a damn good reason to, like abuse, torture or etc.. Then yes, I'd be pissed also.

ILPK, glad to see you love your dog as much as you do, and your family is still behind you for that. :D :D

ILPK: Well sofar i have allways only met the wrong people in my life - before i found this place... Sofar allways everyone though there was a need to change me, some see it as their duty to change other people, im not one of them. I just try to open the door, you have to walk through it. Its you choice to accept and deal with what i offer or not.
Anyways, i dint thought you wanted to accuse me of anything. Its just one of my stupid twists that i feel the need to explain why i do things, why i think the way i do, why i am the one i am... and so on.
I allways, try not to be the way so many people have behaved towards me - i allways try to be polite, firendly but sadly im open and i tend to say what i think. But i just cant see only the good in people anymore.., there has happend way to much in my past. I lost that ability but like i said as long as i dont know someone i dont dare to judge him...

Wolfie: Hehe, well you're welcome! ;) Irealy like the idea of zoofeels. The word somehow realy expresses the way many zoos think!

llloolo: Well said! I agree with you, love and lust belong together! Lust without love will allways lack of something and even though not inall cases i also have to agree that love comes together with lust! To me sex is the final way to express love.
Besides just write it r@pe or leave a space after the r ;)

Hello. I have a lot of strong feelings over this topic. What was written by Bighorse inspires the same emotions in me as it did in HR. As one who is first and foremost a lover, as well as one who is trying to get zoophilia to appear better to society, I feel that zoophiles and beastialists need to be seperated. Like HR said, beastialists make us as a group look bad. This is of course my own opinion.

ILPK, you are very right. There are many among us who walk in darkness. Darkness created by the unknown. Not everyone has had an experience that brought them to be in love with an animal. All to often people remain ignorant to this love as a result of their insecurities blinding them to it. It is a shame that all to often many of us will never open oursleves up to the kind of love that is purer then most.

This love is something that is not easily explained. The feeling that I get whenever I lay eyes on my baby is not something that words could ever express justly. I love her with all of my heart. I am completely in love with her. This love is real and pure. I could not see how one could not love such a creature. I just can't see it.

I think you are right --2-- there is a big difference between the two i personaly have very strong emotional attachments to animals ...in the past i have grieved more so when an animal has died then when a person has died.
At the same time i also have animals that live by themselves they have each other for company and dont realy need me for anything so i dont have an attachment to these animals....so i can sort of see were bighorse is comeing from.
I also wish to tell you that i grew up on a station 140 000 acres in size ...death was a daily ocurance. Some people detach themselves totaly emotionaly wise but it doesnt mean they do not respect the animal.I t dosnt mean they are [EMAIL REMOVED - USE THE PRIVATE MESSAGE SYSTEM] buters in my experience people that are scared of there zoophilia side are more likely to abuse animals Put them down to make themselves seem better then the animal i dont know but i have seen some pretty bad behavior that i couldnt understand.

Hello Throwa. What you wrote is exactly what I feel, IMHO to be right. People who have not accepted this part of their life are more likely to abuse or not form emotional attachments to their animals. There are many securities that people hold onto that prevent them from ever seeing the love that an animal has to offer. I personally did not see it until after I literally hit the bottom. I was ready to take my own life when my dog stared at me. Just stared at me, in that moment I saw everything that she had to offer. We have never had sex. The love that we share is more then I could have ever asked for. And it is real. Had it not been for what happened I would not be free, I wouldn't be alive either. The more people hold onto the securities that "make sense" the less likely you are to ever discover love in an animal. Being free is a wonderful thing. Being in love is even better.

Well, here's how I see it:

Is going out and having sex with another animal wrong if you don't have any emotional attachement to them? I don't think so... as long as you at least care enough about their well being so as not to hurt them in any way, and are at least courtious enough to make sure that it's a pleasurable experience for them. I mean, after all, we humans have sex with each other all the time without emotional attachments, and no one really gets hurt right? I see that in the same way as when someone fence jumps, for instance, and makes sure no one is hurt, and that everyone has a good time. However, when an animal is unwilling, and it is plainly obvious, if the individual carries on, despite the obvious signs, then that is r@pe, and animal abuse.

Have I ever fence jumped before? Yes I have, many times.
Have I ever had an emotional connection with any of he animals I've had sex with? No, not really.
Have I ever hurt any of the animals I've had sex with? Aside from the pain normally assosiated with a virgin having sex for the first time, no, but I have always been gentle with them and made sure that it was still pleasureable enough for them that they come back for more next time I'm in the field.
Have I had a concern for their well being and health? Always, that is top priority.

So, in the above respect, I do consider myself a beastialist. However, when I think of the relationship I have with me and my dog (female), Ebony (Ebby for short), I would also consider myself a zoo. I love her in just about every way that I love my wife. I've never had sex with her, but we kiss and cuddle lots, and the way we can communicate with each other even by looking into each other's eyes is nothing less than magikal. I think that I would let that relationship with her become sexual, but only when she's ready for it, and only if she wants it too; I would never force myself upon her.

So when it comes to being a beastialist and a zoo, I think it's fair to say I'm a bit of both. (correct me if I'm wrong) I think that that statement right there, as I have defined it above, can apply to most of us really, which is one of the biggest reasons why I feel that the line between being a zoo and being a beastialist, is a very fine one indeed.

Personally, I think the difference between a zoo and a beastialist is just as simple as the difference between someone who perfers to remain single and have loads of sexual experiences with lots of people, as opposed to someone who perfers to find one person, and be loyal and committed to just that one person.


Well that's my contribution for today ^^

This post has been edited by LoneSilverUlf on May 10 2004, 02:18 PM

Well,we got a lot of differant resonses and views to eqch his or her own i can see why you (zoos)love your animals as you do i have seen many people like you and there is nothing wrong with that .i love my wife and kids and grandkids ,and i suppose i feel a stong attachment to my animals especially female dogs i can only discribe it as lust there is hardly anything more sexy than a responsive female ,i do not force them to do anything most of what i do they like i have one,right now taht i can do anything i want except penetration she has not had pups yet,and she loves it.i also have had dogs, mine and others i had a friend who had a st. bernard female i used to work for him once in awhile i had known this dog for sometime but not sexually one day i was working there and the dog approached me wagging her tail no one was home so i started petting her , i knelt down beside her started petting her rump and tail she was really getting excited so i ran my hand down her backside and felt her pussy it was huge i got instantly hard she was trying to lick my face slobbers all over i started rubbing her pussy slipped a finger in and she started humping i moved aroud behind her mounted her slipped my hands back between her her legs and fingered her pussy as she continued humping i could put ywo fingers in her i almost come in my pants ,when she was done she moved off and started to run around like crazy just like a pup we had many sessions after that never DID her but would have liked to but as id not want to get caught with my pants down .i really do like to tell of my experiances and because of beastforum and all the people here i can and i thank you for that

I think I've pretty much said my take on the whole thing in my posting-turned-essay "discriminating between lust and love". The term "zoosexual" and "bestialist" have no real difference in definition

IMHO we are talking about three things: Zoo=Agape centered in emotion. Beast=Eros centered in lust. Abuse=pain centered in phychopathy We all have some of all three. As long as we minimize the third one, there is no wrong.