Some of the reasons for early neuter / spay many advocates are fond of reciting is that it will eliminate, or at least minimize, intermale aggression, territorial aggression, dominance aggression, and serious fights over any nearby intact females who are in heat. Some even go so far as to claim that an intact male, who is in the prime of his sexual life, can be very aggressive to not only strangers but even people that he is familiar with!

One animal trainer and behaviorist went to far as to caution that although your 1 y/o or 2 y/o intact male K9 may be acting like a neutered male in terms of being easy to live with, chances are that if you leave even an easy-going fellow intact to the age of 3 years, you'll see undesirable behaviors. She claims the age of 3 is prime time for an intact male to be involved with a terrible tragedy, such as those dogs who have killed children. She adds that obviously, not all intact male K9s are aggressive child-killers. But the risk is increased, and parents need to know this, as does everyone who has a large-breed male K9.

Finally, proponents advocate that neutering relieves sexual frustration and lets your dog relax and enjoy being part of the family.

Having recently adopted an intact 6-month-old bluenose Pit Bull, this is a concern for me. I know these guys are infamous in the media for their aggression. In the '70s they blamed Dobermans, in the '80s they blamed German Shepherds, in the '90s they blamed the Rottweiler. Now they blame the Pit Bull! Ironically a celebrity dog whisperer and world-renowned trainer, Caezar Milan (deliberately misspelled), uses a Pit Bull named Daddy as his "first right-hand dog."

I agree with Caezar, "it's not the breed, it's the human behind the dog. Aggression is a state of mind, not a breed thing."

Right now, my own Pit, Marley (named after Bob, of course), is the most chilled, laid-back, and loving pup, with a very calm-submissive energy. He was already well-socialized when I adopted him, having lived in a family with an older intact male Bull Mastiff and intact female Pit Bull, 2 younger intact Pit Bull puppies, a cat, a pig, and two little boys, ages 3 and 4. When out in public, he's adorabe and irresistable to the ladies. He sure knows how to use his puppy charm and good manners to win their hearts.

Marley is very much a puppy. He still urinates like a bitch, and has the rare accident (no doubt my fault) that requires him to still wear a cute denim "diaper" while indoors at home. Aside from sniffing, and eagerly licking my "cat" :angel: during our "training sessions", he hasn't shown any serious interest in sex with me, or any K9 bitches for that matter. Likewise, he plays very nonaggressively with all the other K9s at the dog parks when I take him off his leash. Otherwise, I always keep him on a leash, especially because of the bad rep Pits have.

We'll be starting our Beginner's Obedience class in a week, followed by a 6-week Canine Good Citizen certification class.

I hope by the time he enters puberty, and we begin to mate on a regular basis, he'll not only resist the urge to bolt and roam every time he picks up the scent of a K9 bitch in heat, but that he won't become aggressive and get into territorial or intermale dominance confrontations. If the comfort and security of a loving home, companion and consistent sexual playmate aren't motivation enough, hopefully all the obedience training and the fact that I'm his "pack leader" and alpha bitch, who leads with an iron hand in a velvet glove, will at least hold him in check.

So, guess what I'm really wanting to know is if all this hype about aggression in intact males is just another lame rationale for castration, or is there really cause for concern?

This post has been edited by BlackMagikWoman on Apr 6 2009, 12:37 AM

as with all things, its a big "may". like warning labels on medications. "may cause drowsiness", "may take up to 4 weeks", or "may cause birth defects in children".
Yes, intact male dogs can be more aggressive because their bodies are being directed by hormones not as readily present in neutered dogs. yes, intact male dogs may be better escape artists because unlike their snipped cousins their desire to get to a female in heat is almost undeniable. yes, intact male dogs may display aggression towards other intact males because their hormone levels can affect their desire to display dominance.
But as with all cans/mays/coulds it is most certainly not 100%. I've dealt with intact male dogs before that were complete prissy submissives and neutered male dogs who would try and test me every chance they got. my own neutered dog started marking at 5 months and still chases bitches in heat like he's got some seeds to sow! :lol:

You unfortunately do have to deal with the completely heinous stigma associated with pitties (shame, they're really awesome dogs), but it sounds like you're doing all the right things to provide yet another shining example of a perfectly normal pit bull. Its good owners like you that help change that misconception about the breed and show people who may otherwise not have had a positive experience that they're actually a really great family dog.

so to sum up, technically the higher level of hormones present in an intact dog can have an effect on his personality, but the effects of neutering are negligible. If a dog is aggressive and dominant before neuter the snip alone will not 'cure' him by any means.

kudos and a 10 for doing all the right things with your pup! ^_^

Thanks for the feedback. I can't take any credit, yet. I've only had him a week. His previous owners have to take some of the credit. But, I think Marley, himself, should get some accolades, and perhaps his parents. From what I've experienced so far, he's just good natured, relaxed, and eager to please. I doubt I'll ever stud him, but seems like these are just the kind of traits the breed needs.

I've read that adolescent intact males, much like humans, experience a surge and much higher levels of testosterone until they reach full maturity. I'm hoping just like sports is a great outlet for human teens, agility training and sports like fly ball will help him through that turbulent period.

Frankly, with my libido, I think between me and his rumps in the dog parks, he'll be just fine. :P Besides, Marley's kinda lazy by nature.

This post has been edited by BlackMagikWoman on Apr 6 2009, 01:35 AM

I am sure this 'benefit' is presented as being much more important then it really is... and other side effects are not talked about, or are brushed aside. For example, there are actually many drawbacks to castration; 3 x the risk of hypothyroidism, increased risk of certain cancers (prostate, bone, cardiac), and increased chance of obesity... to mention a few. The problem is, when any benefit is found, however small, it is blown out of proportion, while any drawback is brushed under the table... all in the name of money, pet overpopulation, or some other agenda.

And regardless, most of a dog's temperament is determined by other factors, such as socialization, breed, or age. Bad owner = Bad dog.

I spent almost two years working at an animal shelter and delt with 100's of pit bulls. I only came across two aggressive ones and they were from drug dealers that trained them that way. Pit bulls are not aggressive by nature. They must be trained that way. I spent many many hours giving people the same speech when they would look at our adoptable dogs and say "Oh, I don't want pit, he'll eat my kids". I always, and still do, hate when people say that. If a pit bull is well trained and cared for in the right way they'll be loving pets for a life time. If you don't plan on neutering him I would make sure you if you plan on leaving him outside that you put up a good sized fence so he doesn't have the option to run away when he gets older.

I have a rottie that I'm fostering right now dispite all the bad things I have heard about them and I have to say she's the sweetest most loving dog I have ever met. If I wasn't so close to border collie's I would go with rotties. Thanks for making the choice to take a pit bull in. You'll have a great life together.

I forgot to add that if anyone knows anything about dog training I wouldn't trust the dog whisperer farther than I could throw him. He trains on fear and makes the dog submit. That's forcing, not training ;)

Gotta agree with gryph here-- Some people with their own agenda are more than willing to argue that space alien attacks are 87% more likely if you leave your dog intact. I've raised Danes for decades (1 stud dog, 3 breeding bitches-- no brokers--not a puppy mill). I don't heave my stud dog out the door when he gets to be 3 yrs. old. They usually live to 10-12 years, and are fine, friendly, good humored fellows who routinely accept AI collections and breeding instructions as a matter of course. Since natural instinct allows only the Alpha dogs to breed, I encourage their dominance behavior (second to me, of course). They can be dominant and still be nice guys.

P.S. Any dog (bull, stallion, ram, etc.) who can't handle the responsibility of behaving properly with his nuggets intact needs to lose them-- both for the safety of those around him, and to reproduce future generations with good temperaments for all to enjoy. :D

Thanks folks for all your feedback.

I've only had one other dog. I raised him from a new-born pup while spending the summer in South Carolina with my great grandparents.

Loved spending my summers there -- lots of farm animals, especially K9s. :angel:

When my parents allowed me to bring him home after the summer, he was a little unruly, having been exclusively an outdoor dog. But after an intense obedience class, using a choker (routine back then), he remained very manageable, even throughout his adolescence. (I subsequently got rid of that nasty choker.) He, too, was intact.

I've heard and read several objections to Caezar Milan's (misspell) techniques. I've been watching a lot of his shows lately, and just saw 3 episodes of the British dominatrix with her own London-based version of his show. They both adhere to the theory of establishing that you're the "pack leader" or "alpha". However, I do at least see her using treats and positive reinforcement.

While it seems the vast majority, if not all, of the obedience classes where I live subscribe to the positive reinforcement method, I can't help but believe that there is some validity to Caezar's method.

K9s are pack oriented, 4 legged or 2. In the wild, pack animals use force, domination and submission, as well as positive reinforcement. When a pup, cub, kitten, etc., young or adolescent, misbehaves, as they're often prone to do, they're mild-to-moderately disciplined. As they grow older, they are more harshly disciplined, especially by the alphas, when they step out of line or test their limits.

While I don't intend to hit my pup, I believe there are occasions and situations where, for the K9's own safety (not my own convenience), you have to use force and make them submit, just as you have to with your own children and teens. This is, of course, then followed by love to reinforce that it's the behavior you were displeased with, not them.

This has worked well with my first K9, several cats, and my own son.

I subscribe to the old "iron hand in a velvet glove" approach combined with a "loose rein" approach. Lay down the law, establish the boundries, then give them freedom within those boundries to enjoy life with me in it.

Basically one simply needs to understand B.K. Skinner's Operant Conditioning: Positive Reinforcement, Negative Reinforcement, Punishment, and Extinction. Both Positive and Negative Reinforcement strengthen behavior, while both Punishment and Extinction weaken behavior. Then one needs to know when and how to effectively apply it. Now that's the tricky part!

Like Gryph stated in his post above, "Bad owner = Bad dog."

This post has been edited by BlackMagikWoman on Apr 6 2009, 07:09 PM

About the only thing that bears any semblance of truth is the same sex aggression towards other dogs. Beyond that, it's the same tired old lies and propaganda to get you to whack the nut sack off the dog. I've had both, and have had fewer issues with my intact dogs, than my cut ones. Good training goes a long way to prevent undesirable behavior, and this is needed whether they are castrated or not.

I guess a bit depends on the breeding of the dog.
It is always safer to spend some time training them before any dominating behavior develops.

Thanks so much for your post, Dawgz.

I suffer and benefit from a moderate form of OCD. One advantage is I love to do my research before, and after, I make a big decision. Right now I have the time to be glued to any K9 related show of interest on the Animal Planet or National Geo.

What I've observed is a lot of the mischief, "bad" behavior and aggression the owners are reaping from their neutered and spayed K9s. Since I've only owned one K9, and he was an intact pup I adopted from my grandparents farm bitch's litter, I have no other reference. I was concerned that if all these fixed pets acted like what folks said an intact one will act, was I to take these fixed pets' behavior and multiple it exponentially?

I've already had to switch dog parks because of the unmonitored excessively rough play and minor fights I've witnessed and heard about at it. Interestingly, 98% of the dogs at this dog park are fixed! There's much better owner supervision at the newer dog park we now go to.

The intactmales I've owned have been very well-behaved and not aggressive. But I owned them since puppyhood (8 weeks or so) and have consistently suppressed aggression from the beginning.
Good luck,
LTD

yep.

It's all in the individual. I've met more neutered aggressive dogs than I have intact aggressive dogs. But then again, I see more and more neutered and spayed dogs... :rolleyes:

They are as individual as we are so there is bound to be some that are naturally
more aggresive than others but you have to take into account how the dog or bitch is raised this, in my experience is the major deciding factor in how any dog behaves around us, having had dogs in the family for night on 40 yrs with no problems with either sex or breeds our current Labrador has already had comments on his behaviour and his looks to the point of being offered for his services as a stud, all of our dogs past and present bar one have been intact.
When there were problems it was usually down to another dog causing it, males
seem to be the guilty parties normally(typical men!!!), most if my family agree raise them right, treat them with the love they deserve and they'll reward you like no other, hurt/abuse them then look out for don't forget they are descended from wolves and still have all those old instincts.

Not so. In the natural world. all Canines live in a pack. The pack has clearly defines roles. The alpha male and female are absolute rulers. All the other pack members constantly vie with each other for position. Any challenge is immediately met with a correction. The dog whisperer simply applies this to human/dog relationships.