I guess that there is not much left to say about "pet owners and their pets."

Franky I've never understood the opposition to having dogs spayed and neutered.
Unless your planning on having sex or for breeding, why not have them fixed? They're not going to be having sex, right.

Unfortunately many pet owners are irresponsible and thats why so many cats and dogs are destroyed every day. :(

This post has been edited by silkythighs on Aug 28 2008, 03:46 AM

there are many health issues, and problems do arise in neutered and spayed animals, especially urinary issues in male cats.

Big Difference between beating on an animal and Beating off.

The "Undercover animals" thing reminds me of a video on Youtube, where some dopes in a 2-man horse costume end up getting bred by an elk.

Soon any animal may be a spy. You'll have to look up your sheep's ass with a flashlight to see if anyone is in there looking back at you......... :blink:

Hurrah, Missy! The only spayed dog I ever had became very geriatric for years before she died-- senility, stroke, spinal collapse--all of the post-menopause symptoms. The intact ones have remained active and vibrant right thru' old age.

http://muttcats.com/articles/whyspay.htm

Responsible Care
You can help prevent the suffering and death of millions of animals?

One cat or dog who has babies and whose babies have babies can be responsible for the birth of 50 to 200 kittens or puppies in one year! Almost everyone loves puppies and kittens, but some people lose interest when these animals grow up. As a result, millions of cats and dogs of all ages and breeds are euthanized annually or suffer as strays. Rarely surviving for more than a few years on their own, strays die painfully by starvation, disease, freezing or being hit by cars.

Common Myths Dispelled
Myth: A female cat or dog should have a litter before she is spayed.

Fact: The sooner you spay your female, the better her health will be in the future. As long as a kitten or puppy weighs more than 2 pounds and is 2 months old, he or she can be neutered or spayed. Many veterinarians are practicing perfectly safe early sterilization. The likelihood of developing mammary tumors or uterine infections increases the longer a female goes unspayed. In fact, a female spayed before sexual maturity (6-9 months of age) has one seventh the risk of an intact female of developing mammary cancer.

Myth: Spaying or neutering (sterilization) will alter my pet ‘s personality.

Fact: Any slight changes will be positive. Regardless of the age when spayed or neutered, your pet will remain a caring, loving and protective companion. Neutering will reduce the need to breed, and that has a calming effect on many animals. Both neutered male canines and felines tend to stop roaming and fighting and lose the desire to mark their territory with urine.

Myth: Companion animals will become fat and lazy if they are neutered.

Fact: Absolutely not! Lack of exercise and overfeeding make pets fat and lazy -- not neutering. Your pet will not gain weight if you provide exercise and monitor food intake. Neutering is good for your pet, since sterilized pets tend to live an average of two to three years longer than unsterilized pets.

Myth: Sterilization is a dangerous and painful surgery for my pet.

Fact: Spaying and neutering are the most common surgeries performed on animals. With a minimal amount of home care, your pet will resume normal behavior in a couple of days.

Myth: Children should witness the miracle of birth.

Fact: Countless books and videos are available to teach your children about birth in a responsible manner. Letting your pet produce offspring you have no intention of keeping is teaching your children irresponsibility. Anyone who has seen an animal euthanized in a shelter for lack of a home knows the truth behind this dangerous myth.

Spaying and neutering is needed. There are irresponsible people out there. I only breed my dogs (who have all been health checked and come from champion parents) to approved female dogs who have also been health checked and have champions in their background (at least). If someone only wants a pet, then the dog should be spayed/neutered. Same goes for all animals.

good post, silkythighs.
That last one is just silly, but there are some people who think that children must see birth. Besides the mother dog would prefer the child not be there!
As for the weight gain, I've seen plenty proof of that, but I'm not going into that in this thread. :o
And of course its a safe surgery. The chance of fatality is just as slim as when humans are put under for surgery. Bad things can happen, but its rare.

regarding the spay/neuter discussion-within-the-discussion, I'm all for encouraging education about the benefits of spaying and neutering pets. especially with all this puppymill bullcrap (what kind of sick idiot made that trend mainstream!?) and puppies/kittens being sold in petshops, encouraging knowledgeable pet ownership is a must. I highly back the "all spayed/all neutered" programs... but only in places where they'll make a difference. The average dog owner is obviously better off with a spayed/neutered pet, but what about some kind of certification program for canine handler higher-education?
The fact that a majority of breeders are now either selling desexed puppies or requiring spay/neuter procedures as early as 8 months is not only detrimental for the development of the dog or bitch (many studies back this), but also leaves professional-level dog owners at a quandary. There's no way to break into the purebred arena without extensive prerequisites these days. Some breeders who tout big name dogs are requiring at least one vet tech credit or six months as a veterinary intern in order for them to purchase one of their dogs for breeding. that's insane! Why not leave those valuable positions open for people actually training to be vets, y'know?

In the end of it all, while all spayed/all neutered is a good idea, I'd like there to be ways that responsible owners who have proven time and time again that they have the knowledge and skill to handle an intact dog or bitch to own one as such without resorting to loopholes or 'lesser breeders'. it would be very easy to have a licensing program, like being licensed in CPR. A few classes, a certain number of hours of hands on experience, and a certification 'final'... I'd be more than willing to put in time and money for a class if it means i never have anyone second-guess my knowledge or skill as a handler/owner of an intact dog.

even so... I still love 'em, balls or not! *cuddles cody the ball-less* :lol:

This post has been edited by buckup on Aug 29 2008, 12:31 AM

So, what we're advocating here is having the critters pay for human error...just so I'm on the same page with the consensus...Interesting idea...an unnecessary invasive medical procedure on an otherwise correctly-functioning animal is OKAY?....

So if the boot was on the other foot, you'd lose your 'nads or ovaries willingly because some other misguided dope can't keep his or hers in its place?....

Surgery and anesthesia are always potentially life-threatening, folks...I dunno 'bout y'all but I am not letting anyone near me with a knife unless there's no other way...and they are NOT getting near my critter either...and Laws which might attempt to force the issue are laws to which I will cheerfully offer Civil Disobedience...I can take care of my Menace, and I can take care of myself...have done for a long time...and I don't need a Big Brother to watch over me

yep, saddlebum, you are right. sad, isn't it? -_-

I guess... but it shouldnt be a requirement to have this done. A responsible owner should be able to minimize any breeding just through proper care. Even if there is an "accident" I wouldn't say that is causing much of a problem. I think a lot more euthanisations are from dogs that were abandoned when they lost their "cuteness", ran in to a training roadblock, became too expensive, or more to the point... the owner was unwilling to make sacrifices to honor their commitment.

I think you're probably right, Gryph...and I fervently believe the " training" part of pet-ownership should begin BEFORE the pet is owned...particularly with Dogs, as, in all honesty, they are a human-created species, potential owners need to understand...they can't really take care of themselves in the Natural world, any more than a Juvenile of ANY species is ready to take care of itself...Dogs have been described as adolescent wolves that don't advance past the point of puberty...we've managed to breed into them something that arrests development beyond a certain point, or they'd still be wolves and not 257 different variations on a theme...they were bred to respond to us, to please us and to regard US as their pack...that puts an obligation on us that cannot be broken...and if we want them in our world we must live up to that...

I soooo agree. Obedience trainers often state that they are training the owners, teaching the owners how a dog responds. Dogs want to please us, they do have wants and desires however they are not human, one cannot assign human motives and desires to their behaviors


One can read as many healthcare pros as cons for neutering or spaying. Using the pros as a defense, rather than accepting the responsibility of being a pet owner seems to me just another abrogation of that responsibility. Spaying of a female does remove the “risk” of puppies, however in a great many females it results in the loss of bladder tone and urinary incontinence. This will often result in the human owner having the dog “put down” because of the constant mess. ( Just a note here, if you do have a female that has this problem presently, it is treatable with hormones from your vet. Know also that choosing this option has its own risks, make sure your Vet explains them to you ) In neutering a male it is stated that it prevents certain cancers, read further and you will note that many of the cancers occur in advanced age. Statistics are numbers …. That can be used to prove or disprove many things, often with the same information. They are NOT an excuse to let someone else make your decisions. I am sure that there are individual decisions that lead a choice of spaying or neutering I hope that the choice is well considered, and not just one of convenience.

This post has been edited by ms deelight on Aug 30 2008, 09:24 PM